Race tyres

[Avi]

Whats the word on good race tyres?

Continental 4000?

Im currently on training tyres which are pretty heavy and am yet to get a punture, ive heard lighter tyres will make quite a difference, although i dont really want 5 puntures per ride. What does everyone use?

[j_young_80]

Michelin Pro Race 3 for racing - general consensus with this mob is the Conti GP 4000's is a good all rounder.

[Frances]

I've had a set of Schwalbe Ultremo race tyres since Worlds, and they have been sensational. Normally train with Gatorskins, and these ones are heaps lighter. They were $100 each at the LBS though, so when I couldn't get them online I decided on a Conti twin pack - Continental Grand Prix Attack/Force - Pair F&R. Hoping they're a good choice and that they'll arrive this week so I can try them out before Bright. Will be bringing the others just in case...

Have also ordered some 'light' 'racing' tubes. Same goes - will see how they go, and bring the ol' reliables I know as well.

Tyres seem to be another one of those things - everyone has the best tyres and consequently everyone else's are inferior - but it seems that you can't really go wrong with Conti.

Hopefully someone with more of an idea than me will reply as well though! :D

[Frances]

...I've used Michelin Pro3s as well. They were OK, but I had more flats with them than I've ever had before! Thought the Schwalbe ones were better. Fingers crossed re the latest order.

[Ross]

Have also ordered some 'light' 'racing' tubes. Same goes - will see how they go, and bring the ol' reliables I know as well.



I had some problems with random blowouts with Conti Race Light tubes. May of just had a bad batch, dunno. I'll now stick with 'normal' Race 28 (Conti) tubes. Some people don't like the threaded valves of the Contis but I'm superstitious and won't mix Michelin smooth stem tubes with Conti tyres in case they react against each other and cause the world to stop spinning! :eek:

I sometimes use Tioga brand from LBS (same weight as Race 28) but have found they often have trouble with sticking valve - fixable by putting a drop of lube on the valve every so often but still a bit of a hassle.

Ian Downing always swears by latex tubes but I reckon normal rubber tubes are flimsy enough. I think Jamie was going to try some latex tubes so maybe he can give us the low down.

[Chris]

GP 4000s for racing - Pro Race 3s if you like flats. But that is just me.

[Avi]

Sweet, thanks peeps. Apparently my tires weigh about 285gm. Conti's are about 200gm, might go with them.

[Avi]

GP 4000s for racing - Pro Race 3s if you like flats. But that is just me.

So is that just gp 4000 or gp 4000 S?

[SimonD]

Same tyre, diff colours as far as I can tell.

I'm surprised that this has generated less suggestions than respondents! Usually tyres get no consensus. Michelin ProRace seem to be pure race tyres - great feel and grip, but f you train on them you'll get flats. Conti GP4000s are a bit more all round, but still on the race end of the spectrum. I use them on both my wheels and don't have too many problems. They have a rep for sidewall explosions though, but you can usually see it coming if you check the wall of your tyre every so often. It's not a sudden thing, but like a design fault where the casing starts to slowly split. Sparkles always spruiks the Ultremos, which is prolly why Frances tried them, but I've never tried them myself.

I bought a latex tube from an LBS this weekend - $27 for one! Yikes!

[Startrek]

Vredstein Tri comp love these i train and race on them, i switched from Hutchison's Fusion which i liked also .If you can afford them two sets of wheels are the way to go ,the training wheels can be cheaper and heavier (good to train on heavy wheels you will get benefits out of it ).When you put the lighter wheels on to race you will fly like the wind ,in theory anyway.

[Simonsky]

Vittoria EVO's! Almost like riding a tubular tyre...only they're clinchers.

Conti's do have pretty good grip though. Not sure about Ultremo's or Vredstein's.

[Ross]

So is that just gp 4000 or gp 4000 S?

I mostly use the S. There are two versions of the black gp 4000 which seem to be the same except for different logo on the tyre. The black tyres seem more puncture resistant to me and I can't feel any difference in the rolling resistance between the black and coloured ones.

http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=Y0072

http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=Y0061

[j_young_80]

Ian Downing always swears by latex tubes but I reckon normal rubber tubes are flimsy enough. I think Jamie was going to try some latex tubes so maybe he can give us the low down.

Yeah i've bought 2 new Conti's + latex tubes - yet to ride on them mind you.

The last time I tried Conti's I had a massive sidewall blowout after about 100k's on the tyre. As for tubes I think that Michelin are far and away the best tubes on the market - the valves aren't threaded and they seem to last so much longer than the Conti range. You've got to get in quick as they are never in stock anywhere! I had a pack of ten Tioga tubes and was not a fan. I didn't read the fine print that said "single use only" since they seemed to last about one ride before packing it in.

[Avi]

Have placed an order for the conti GP 4000 S and my xmas present helmet(Thanks Ingrid) yay! Thanks for the recommendations guys, the next step will be new wheelset one for race and one for training - this would be ideal methinks. With dedicated wheelset for racing i take it it would be good to get a higher end tire?

[Hoops]

I use conti's because they look cool. End of story really.

Sometimes i don't puncture for 3 months, other times i get 4 in a week.

Avi, if you were keen on getting a specific race set of wheels, then you'd probably be looking at tubulars anyway.

[Simonsky]

Latex tubes are great to ride on. They have a really responsive 'pingy' feel to them. They are also less puncture prone than latex.

But they do bleed air (I lose about 20psi overnight in them) and you really need to use talc powder with them.

And they're often slightly heavier than comparable race butyls. You don't necessarily use them to save weight -- though they are still light.

[Chris]

I use conti's because they look cool. End of story really.

Sometimes i don't puncture for 3 months, other times i get 4 in a week.

Avi, if were keen on getting a specific race set of wheels, then you'd probably be looking at tubulars anyway.


The tubular vs clincher debate. Personally I have gone the high end clincher rather than tubulars. I am not sure there is really that much difference to justify either the cost or the hassle.

[Hoops]

The tubular vs clincher debate. Personally I have gone the high end clincher rather than tubulars. I am not sure there is really that much difference to justify either the cost or the hassle.

I agree. However, others may deem a race wheel to have a deep rim and thus makes sense to save the weight via a tubular setup rather than have a set of heavyish deep rims and a set of really light climbing wheels.

[Startrek]

Avi please tell me you didn't order your Helmet O/S you can't not use this to race in big open races they will check for a Australian standard sticker ,please disreguard this if not.

[Avi]

Avi please tell me you didn't order your Helmet O/S you can't not use this to race in big open races they will check for a Australian standard sticker ,please disreguard this if not.

ah shi-, fail. Such a stupid standard.

[Startrek]

Hey email them see if you can't cancel .

[milto]

So is there a good online option to buy helmets in Aus?

[Startrek]

Torpeo 7 have good deals they come and go ,they had a range of Limar the other day heavily discounted. Good idea to sign up to their email .

I know i don't get it either how a helmet O/S is halve the price here ,when its the same helmet they bring in and put a sticker on it.

[Avi]

Lucky you pointed that out Lee. Completely forgot about the Au standards...

[bosworth*]

michelin pro race 3 and Continental gp4000 and gp4000s are quite popular.

[Avi]

Finally got the 4000s going to test them out at the crit tonight.. werd. I wonder if i will actually notice a difference from the old 'training' tyres.

[_ABC_]

I've got some myself. They make a reassuring hum when under load around corners.

[SueP]

I rate the Vittoria evo corsa - despite the 'race tyre' tag (and 145psi max pressure) they have actually survived as well as the GP4000's in general use and have a nice feel to them. A few big cuts on the rear now so will have to change for Bright but they seem to survive big cuts without puncturing or else I have been very lucky. Got a set of prorace3's to try out next (on special)

[_ABC_]

Those new tyres must have done the trick Avi - Congrats on the big E grade win last night!

[bosworth*]

Avi, good win. It was an excellent tactical move to attack the breakaway group/split with half a lap to go. You should have started your sprint earlier.

[Avi]

Hey Thanks, yeah looks like the tyres made a difference, i like the clockwise crit it seems so much easier or maybe the interval training at the supercrits is paying off. Now ill be back to being dropped off the back again in D.

[Avi]

On the tyres though, they had a lot more grip and rolling resistance seemed to be alot better (less), i think that is because they can be pumped up to 120psi instead of the old tyres 100psi max.

[dadcram]

HIGH PRESSURES ON TYRES – NOT

I’m running Corima disc and a Vittoria Corsa Evo CS on a Corima disc. Is this the right tire and what pressure should it be ridden at for best performance?
View Josh's Response
The Corsa Evo CS will be perfect for that wheel, and I would recommend 100-125 psi (6.9-8.6 bar) depending on your weight. You will want to run 0.2-0.5bar more in the rear than the front to account for weight bias. I personally weigh 155lbs (70kg) and run my tires at 105 psi front (7.2 bar) and 110 psi (7.6 bar) in the rear. When I was racing and lighter I ran them at 100/105, but now that I'm heavier it is safer to run a few extra psi and I may go even higher on bad roads, which has worse rolling resistance, but better protects the wheels from damage in the event of hitting a pothole or something else which could damage a rim or tire. The better option is to run a wider tire at lower pressure on rough roads, but that is just not always feasible, so I would rather have higher rolling resistance and protect the wheels than lower rolling resistance and increased risk of damage to the wheel.
Higher pressure is definitely slower on anything other than perfect surfaces. Think of it in terms of a bunch of 1mm tall bumps in the road. If you have a lower tire pressure, the casing of the tire will deflect over each bump (we'll assume the casing deflects the entire 1mm) converting a small amount of energy into heat as the casing deflects, but the amount of energy necessary to compress the air is almost non-existent. Now at a higher pressure, we will assume that the tire deflects half as much. Now the bike and rider are lifted by 0.5mm and the casing deflects by .5mm, the energy necessary to deflect the casing by .5mm is less than it takes to deflect it by 1mm, but is nothing compared to the amount of energy necessary to lift the bike and rider by 0.5mm, so the end result is that the total energy requirement for the high tire pressure condition is much greater.
The other thing that happens is that on smoother roads, high tire pressures keep the casing from deforming over and into small cracks and crevices and over pebbles, which means that some of the deflection is transferred into the tire tread, which is not as elastic as the casing. Excessive tire wear comes about as the tire rubber begins to fail in shear as it is deformed by the road surface, and this generates heat as well as breaks down the cross-linking within the tread material.... overall, you are using more energy to go slower and you're wearing your tires out faster. The problem is that high tire pressures feel fast as your body perceives all the high frequency vibrations from the road surface as being faster than a smooth ride.
Lennard Zinn had a great analogy when he said that 100kph in a Jeep will scare the crap out of you but 200kph in an S class Mercedes feels effortless...the same is true of bike tire pressures, but it's just hard to convince ourselves of that. As athletes we tend to buy into the 'if some is good, more must be better' philosophy, but this is rarely true. Of course the tire manufacturers have given up on this and continue to try and make higher pressure tires as that's what the consumers demand, as I think that they've decided that it is easier to just give people what they think they want than to try to educate and argue with them :-)
http://www.zipp.com/support/askjosh/tires.php#
Suggested pressures if you use Zipp tyres (http://www.zipp.com/accessories/detail.php?ID=51)

[SueP]

Higher pressure is definitely slower on anything other than perfect surfaces.

Yep - I run my vittoria's a bit under the minumum recommended 8bar/115psi (around 105) for training, but for crits on the very smooth surface at SFP I run them around 125 (still under the maximum 10 bar/145 psi). I think many clincher wheels have a maximum recommended for the rims which would be less than 145 anyway.

[bosworth*]

I run my Contintal 4000 tyres at 125psi.

Am I a victim of the 'if some is good, more must be better' mentality?

[Simonsky]

I've had to deflate my tyres for the crit. Used to run 120psi, but the back wheel drifts when accelerating out of corners. Much better at 90-100psi (with an 85kg rider), especially sprinting out of the last corner doing the clockwise direction.

I'm only a victim of the 'more must be better' mentality when it comes to breakfast crepes (mmmmm, breakfast crepes...only one sleep to my purple pickle fix)

[theFightinPussy]

I'm only a victim of the 'more must be better' mentality when it comes to breakfast crepes (mmmmm, breakfast crepes...only one sleep to my purple pickle fix)

That breaky did look good this morning!

[RobF]

Hey Thanks, yeah looks like the tyres made a difference, i like the clockwise crit it seems so much easier or maybe the interval training at the supercrits is paying off. Now ill be back to being dropped off the back again in D.

This is nonsense. You will be one of 1-2-3 with me and James next week.