Should Cyclists Wear iPods while on the Bike?

[j_young_80]

A contentious issue - even within our squad so I thought i'd open this one up to the public to get a feel for people's thoughts. Should local cyclists keep the iPod in their pocket and out of their ears when out on the bike?

[gsavage]

Why should car drivers be the only ones to have music, as long as it's not loud, you can still hear what's going on around you and you don't start dancing around on your bike, whats the harm :)

[Andrew]

Why should car drivers be the only ones to have music, as long as it's not loud, you can still hear what's going on around you and you don't start dancing around on your bike, whats the harm :)

Even if the volume is low, you're still going to block out fainter noises.. and who knows.. that could mean knowing a cars 50m behind you, instead of 10 if having the music on/earphones in ears....

The same thing goes for drivers too.. I don't get the headphones whilst driving thing there either...

[Startrek]

Bose ear phones are the best ,to this Whatever ,hope no one ever turns the radio in the car up to loud ,what and you have never driven while talking on a mobile phone .Please don't give me some b ulls hit about ipods

[SimonD]

I voted not at all, simply because it's against the law[edit: I don't think this is actually true in Australia]. But I very occasionally do it. I find music pointless against the wind noise useless it's up so loud I can't hear traffic and worry about my hearing. So I generally do podcasts while doing something like climbing efforts.

Radios/players with speakers are legal. I heard one the other day on the bike path, listening to ABC's PM! There's a company that makes an MP3 holder with speakers that fit in your bar ends instead of plugs. Probably not for the carbon race machine though.

As a general philosophy, the less excuses you give an idiot driver to hit you, the better!

[Driver]

I'm with Lee - Bose in ear phones are superb. Clarity at all volumes. eBay $75 from Japan - or China, I can't remember (and they are the real deal, I checked) $200+ in the Bose shop. 2 years on and they cop a caning - mtb, rain etc etc - still going strong.

I think the left ear only (non-traffic side) and definitely pop it out in the bunch or in dodgy/high traffic areas where you need all of your senses.

[Ross]

I'm with Simon. I have to put up with young people at my work wandering around with iPods blaring all day and continually going "huh?" or "what?" at me every time I to ask/tell them something. It annoys me no end, not to mention being an OH&S issue when they can't hear a forklift about to run them over. Apart from the OH&S issue it is unsociable and rude when you are with other people (ie a bunch of cyclists). I don't understand the need for people to hear music 24/7, it's like an addiction.

[j_young_80]

Just because you don't understand the need for it though doesn't make it wrong! I listen to music while i'm at work, and i'm partial to using the ipod on long rides. While I wouldn't crank the tunes going down Northbourne, i'd certainly lift up the volume doing an Old Federal - maybe even be a cheeky devil and pop the second earphone in. I'm not talking so loud that I can't hear myself think. If i'm riding on the shoulder of the road and a car is veering towards me, hearing it coming isn't really going to help me change what's about to happen.

[milto]

I think it is irresponsible for cyclists to comprimise their hearing while riding on the road. We all need to be as aware as possible on the road to everthing happening around us and music takes away some of this ability. Putting it in one ear makes us lose the direction of the sound.

[Bean]

I've voted No, not at all. I've lost count of the number of times I've made my approach known to other cyclists on the road, only to find I have to pull out into traffic to pass them cos they haven't hear me. I've tried it myself (with good quality earphones) and found it relatively pointless unless the vol was too high, and i find it difficult to hear what the bike's doing, apart from the important sounds on the road.

2 cents

[gsavage]

Ok, you have persuaded me, I won't be using my ipod on the bike. :o I generally can't hear it for half the time as the wind noise is too much anyway. But one post claimed it's illegal anyway, does anyone know if that is true? :confused:

[SimonD]

Hmm, I might have just made it up. From my Google searching it seems a common law in America, but I can't find a rule against it in the ACT or Aus road rules. I stand corrected.

[SimonD]

It's illegal DURING most major events under UCI and CA rules I beleive??!

Maybe that's what I was thinking. It is specifically banned in the tech regs.

[Bean]

I wouldn't be too upset if they were made illegal under ACT legislation.

[gsavage]

I had a quick check of the State and Territory Roads and Traffic Authorities and no it does not appear illegal, but I did find this on the NSW RTA website...

'Do not wear headphones when riding. You must be able to hear potential hazards so you can react quickly.'

You can check out the full details at: http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/usingroads/downloads/bicycle_riders_handbook.pdf

Pretty convincing to me. :)

[Hoops]

Shuffleupagas always gets the call-up.

Having ridden down Northbourne with and without tunes I've noticed no difference detecting whether a car is behind me or not. It may take a couple of yards off but i can't really do much about being hit from the rear. As long as I don't assume there's nothing behind me before blindly swinging out, then those few yards don't really affect me.

[Bean]

http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/ipod--the-risks/2006/02/15/1139890771660.html

But then...

http://www.bikereader.com/solo/ipod.html

[milto]

And the hoons running lights or give way signs to the sides that you don't see and now don't hear. Sorry hoops but when you are exposed on the roads like we are everything effects you.

Sure you are likely to get away with it for years. I bet though that pedestrians and cyclists die because they are listening to music. I don't plan on taking this risk ever.

[Vanessa]

I'm with Lee & Simon. Think it's fine on solo rides but never in a bunch. Don't think hearing a truck about to hit me would change anything :( though I do keep the volume down. Each to their own. No voting 4 me as there's no option 4 use only when alone. V

[Ross]

Don't think hearing a truck about to hit me would change anything

I have to disagree with you V (and Jamie). Often when riding on Northbourne Ave you can hear a truck or a bus approaching from behind and know to move to the left a bit more (even though already in the bike lane) so you don't cop a mirror to the back of the head. With an iPod you most likely wouldn't hear the vehicle approaching.

[j_young_80]

But Ben and Ross clearly never listen to music, in fact may be closet music haters - so it's fairly easy to take the "No" option for them and say it should be banned.

I did say that I'd avoid using my iPod down Northbourne aka Death Valley because it's pretty sketchy, and you do get riders come up behind you that will call out but if i'm out on the Federal, on a shoulder and not riding like a numpty I don't see the problem. If it's any guide - I can still hear the bogans yelling abuse over the music, which is unfortunate.

[tor.lattimore]

Riding a bike at all is naturally (a little) risky. To say that listening to music while riding is stupid because it increases that risk doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't do it. The real question is do the benefits out-way the gains? And the answer surely depends on how much the individual values music and what they deem the added risk to be.

Also, the risk is worn (mostly) by the cyclist themselves as they're unlikely to kill anyone except themselves as a consequence.

I listen to music occasionally while alone.

[Hoops]

I have to disagree with you V (and Jamie). Often when riding on Northbourne Ave you can hear a truck or a bus approaching from behind and know to move to the left a bit more (even though already in the bike lane) so you don't cop a mirror to the back of the head. With an iPod you most likely wouldn't hear the vehicle approaching.

I think Jamie makes a good point regarding this quote. Tis clear you've never tried it and for that reason alone it's hard to made a factually correct assessment. I bagged it out for months, questioning why people would do it. Then one day I gave it a shot and I honestly feel like I lose no awareness. I can hear all busses/trucks/cars/mopeds when they are approaching. No diff.

The only time the one ear bud technique impedes me is when i have a rider on my left side having a chat. I can still hear them just as well, it's just the music is distracting me from what they are saying..... sometimes this is the desired effect :)

[SimonD]

I believe it's called "thinking". :)

And yes, I would like to see it banned, too.

[Hoops]

And the hoons running lights or give way signs to the sides that you don't see and now don't hear. Sorry hoops but when you are exposed on the roads like we are everything effects you.

Sure you are likely to get away with it for years. I bet though that pedestrians and cyclists die because they are listening to music. I don't plan on taking this risk ever.

As I said Milto. I can still hear. If I couldn't, or believed it did hinder my ability to hear dangers, I wouldn't do it.

Also, as someone who rode for 4/5 months without music on Northbourne, then made the switch. I had a decent base for comparison and from my experience the music did little to nothing on my ability to hear YMMV.

[lynds]

My opinion is no, cycling is dangerous enough as it is without being distracted by music in your ear, perhaps it's ok on the bike path or on a quiet road with no one else around, but never in a bunch or whilst there's traffic around.

But, another reason that I think warrants a mention is that it's a bad look. Cyclists have enough of a bad image as it is (and often for good reason) let alone giving another excuse for car drivers to think "bloody cyclists"... riding around with their ipods in. (Even if you think you can hear perfectly well... a driver doesn't know that). You just have to read some of the comments posted on news websites after incidents occur, and the people that think these sorts of things are the ones driving around that we have to contend with on the roads. Don't give other road users yet another reason to think that cyclists are reckless self absorbed idiots.

Say you happened to get hit by a car with your ipod in. Even if it wasn't your fault. The story will still be, Cyclist Hit by Car Was Wearing Ipod.

[milto]

Obviously we all have to decide what risks we are willing to take for what rewards.

I think this has been an interesting discussion for me because I am usually the one who is willing to take those risks, a long time ago I thought the helmet law was stupid rode alot without a helmet, I have risked lots just to ski fast. Maybe I am getting old now and conservative.

Anyway the risk is too great for me to wear headphones while riding on the road.

I hope magpies learn to see the one headphone in and attach from the side you can't hear from.

MM

[Hoops]

As a real-world comparison for people who haven't actually used an i-pod when riding. I find it about 10 times harder to hear when wearing one of those carbon headband thingo's and mine has 3 small holes for the ears.

[Driver]

Back on topic - check out the last Cycliquette tip re:iPod use in bunches;
http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2009/10/cycliquette-shortlist/

Not cool in the bunch.

[pm0203]

I voted no, for the simple reason that a faint noise heard a couple of seconds without an iPod might save yourlife.

With an iPod, you might hear the truck 1 millisecond before it hits you.

Cant even justify iPods anywhere but on indoor rollers.

Even training on the crit track, its good to be fully aware of noises that can help you.

[Raven]

Hi, i'm Maxx - Totoro's angry alter ego - the bad cop to his good cop if you will. Keep the Poll on topic or your post gets deleted. Annoy me further and you get some quiet time in the corner.

[SimonD]

My god! Our new take no prisoners Admin, The Maxx has gone mad and deleted all the irrelevant comments! I liked Totoro better.

[SimonD]

Dear The Maxx,
I would like to submit the opinion that I agree with Lyndsey's comments on driver perceptions. I hope you will find this fit to publish on your esteemed forum.
Kind regards to you and your family,
Simon Dwyer

[Steven]

Yes for solo training rides. No for commuting and bunch rides. In fact it should warrant a quick slapdown from other cyclists.

[LynV]

I've stopped using the ipod, its my all alone in a road race training

[Startrek]

See if you have never used a ipod training how in hell would you know ,its like childless people telling you they understand about raising a child please..........
You still can hear the traffic if you use a ipod correctly.

[SimonD]

See if you have never used a ipod training how in hell would you know ,its like childless people telling you they understand about raising a child please..........

Just the analogy I was thinking of!

[Bean]

I disagree Lee. I've used an iPod and found it pointless and distracting. The latter being of particular relevance as a distracted rider surely runs a higher risk of accident?? Unfortunately this is an assumption based upon reasoned logic but not hard fact. I would prefer to see data on the topic, so it's only an opinion which I hope would not sway peoples individual judgement but perhaps persuade them to think about and research the topic before taking a specific stance. I still say no but wouldn't argue that people can't listen to Eye of The Tiger while warming up on the rollers! Comparison of training with an iPod and raising children is a false analogy.

[Startrek]

You are such a Scientist Bean:D

[Adam]

I voteed no. I have used an ipod on a few occasions but found that it was distracting and wind noise was too great to make it enjoyable.

And there is absolutely no point listening with one ear phone in, especially if you are listen to early-era stereo recordings where the music is on one side of the mix and the voices on the other.

[Startrek]

And this comes from someone that has Ali and Dean Martin on his page .:D

[Bean]

And this comes from someone that has Ali and Dean Martin on his page .:D

And that's an ad hominem attack.

[j_young_80]

Hmm, the No's are at 17, with "Conditional Yes's" at 19. Close than I would have thought I must say.

[lynds]

I would still argue that is not just about each one of us as an individual, that what we do on the road actually affects everyone else too because of cyclists' image as a group. When we're out cycling we're representing all cyclists, if one person does something wrong then it is the cycling community as a whole that suffers because other road users lump us all together. I'm not saying that's how it should be, but unfortunately that's how it is.

I think a good attitude to take is every time you're out on your bike, ask yourself how the way you are riding would look to a car driver. We don't run lights, even if is safe to go, because that just worsens our image in the eyes of the driver over there watching. Likewise, plugged into an ipod, how does that image look? Even if you think it's safe, it's a bad look. Another excuse for car drivers to get on their high horse, and harrass the next group of cyclists they come across.

So rather than "what do I want to do when I'm out cycling", but perhaps consider "how does the way I cycle best promote the image of cyclists as sensible and worthy of respect on the road".

[Ross]

But Ben and Ross clearly never listen to music, in fact may be closet music haters - so it's fairly easy to take the "No" option for them and say it should be banned.



Quite the opposite, Jamie, I love music, have over 100 CDs in my collection and even some vinyl LPs - ask your grandparents what these are - and I listen to the radio at work all day. I even listen to music when driving my car. But I don't need to listen to it, I can quite happily function without music, sometimes I prefer not to have the distraction. When I'm on the bike as I want 110% of my senses working so I can hear traffic and also as I think Ben said any noises my bike might be making.

Lynds - not sure about your point that motorists would take a dim view of cyclists wearing iPods, I'm sure most of them wouldn't know or care. They are more concerned about cyclists running red lights or disobeying other road rules.

[lynds]

Just the impression I get from reading online blogs... which perhaps I shouldn't do!

[theFightinPussy]

As a cyclist, you don't need any distractions. If you have an ipod, regardless of the permutation, it is an added distraction when riding.

For those who rocked this morning with them hanging out pockets or on your arm, it doesn't give us a good look when riding as a bunch. Drivers will see this and then assume we are listening to ipods even if you aren't listening to it.

If anything happens and it turns out you had an ipod on you, you won't get any sympathy from me.

[tor.lattimore]

As a cyclist, you don't need any distractions. If you have an ipod, regardless of the permutation, it is an added distraction when riding.

So I shouldn't have a conversation while riding? Or take my hands off the bars to gesture? You can argue an ipod is too much of a distraction. You can't argue that any distraction is unjustified. (incidentally I'm not a fan on bunch rides)


For those who rocked this morning with them hanging out pockets or on your arm, it doesn't give us a good look when riding as a bunch. Drivers will see this and then assume we are listening to ipods even if you aren't listening to it.


The way the fast bunch was today the last thing we need to worry about is people having an unused mp3 player attached to their shirt ...

I hear the argument Lynds put up a lot and it seems reasonable. However in this case I suspect car drivers won't particularly notice or care.

On a bit of an aside, I also believe that for the few cars drivers using "scofflaw" cyclists as an excuse to dislike us is just that, an excuse. They don't like us (as cyclists) for other reasons which is expressed as "Oh, they're always breaking the law and doing stupid things". It's very similar to racism.

Of course, that doesn't mean I think we should break laws - I just don't feel we should pander to what the cars want. By the way, the thing I hear that annoys everyday non-cyclists the most? Riding two abreast - a right we defend to the death.

[Hoops]

Spot-on Tor.

If a car driver can spot a 2x3cm thing on my left sleeve then they are doing very well. So well that I'd feel very safe on the road if everyone's vision was that acute.

As far as distractions go, everyone's different and you can't claim that as fact. What works for some, won't for others.

Poor show regarding the comment about no sympathy for a rider that goes down with an ipod Matt.

[bosworth*]

Personlly, I hardly ever use them. I don't really care what others do - it's up to them.

[mikeyc]

Personally, I love it but only do it when riding by myself. One earplug on the roads and both for CR's, Federal ITT's etc...Cranked up loud and proud with something funky. Highly recommend it.

[Steven]

I've never been hassled by a motorist for listening to an iPod while cycling, and as a driver I've never noticed whether a cyclist was wearing one. Seems to be a moot point, moreso given the number of motorists listening to doof-doof or nattering away on their mobile phone.

[ridetoski]

Each to their own. We are all adults and, assuming it isn't illegal, we have a choice "to listen or not to listen". Personally, I love my ipod and listen to it all the time when cycling on my own. 70's rock gets me up hills from time to time (I know, I'm showing my age) :)

[James]

I'm very much in favour of the iPod. There's nothing like the White stripes to get you up a mountain... Only when alone though... I don't thnk it significantly affects your capacity to pick up on hazards or anything like that- I wasn't wearing my iPod yesterday and I still stacked it when the idiot in the hatchback nearly collected me!

It's a bit like study and work I think- I can't study properly without some kind of music in the background on a stereo or an iPod, and if I need to cncentrate at work I'll put it on, but I know some people can't focus with any noise at all in the background. It's a personal preference, like listening to music in the car, and I would kick up a major stink if someone (especially someone who's not a cyclist!) tried to stop me.

[SueP]

Interesting reading. I agree that personal choice is fine if it doesn't impact on others. However I think Ben's point is one that many of us have had to deal with - being forced to vear around other cyclists on the road because they can't hear you coming up behind them and yelling or even ringing a bell if you have one (which of course, by law we all do!!).

I still feel that I take enough risks without adding to it and I although you can't always do anything about getting hit from behind I reckon being fully aware of whats happening around me, including hearing and responding to strange sounds from behind, has saved my bacon more than once.

[theFightinPussy]

Poor show regarding the comment about no sympathy for a rider that goes down with an ipod Matt.


Mate I really couldn't care less. To me the issue of using an ipod when riding is a no brainer - you shouldn't be doing it. I am just putting my views and feelings out there and if nobody likes them its no skin of my nose.

[Hoops]

Mate I really couldn't care less. To me the issue of using an ipod when riding is a no brainer - you shouldn't be doing it. I am just putting my views and feelings out there and if nobody likes them its no skin of my nose.

To a lot of people not riding on the road is a no-brainer and shouldn't be done. Do you conform to their beliefs? No. Everyone is different and has a different view point. But being different is not justification for criticism.

Like James, I always studied with music. Why? Because i found it focused me, not distracted me. If it distracts you that's fine, best not to use an ipod. Simple! No need to hate on others because they are different to you.

[James]

If you're going to ban iPods you might as well ban radios in cars and hands free mobiles while you're at it. The reality is that even with the music up loud you can hear more on a bike than you can in a car, you're going a lot slower and if some idiot in a car is going to get you you're pretty much stuffed anyway. Seriously, who hears a truck coming and swerves off the road to wait for it to go past? Or a bus for that matter...

As for other cyclists- like cars, you should be keeping left unless overtaking anyway. Some people don't do it, and yes, it annoys the hell out of everyone else who's going faster, but unless you feel like tailgating or yelling a bit louder, I say learn to deal with it and keep the bike rage in check, or you'll end up on the wrong side of a 7ft Tongan commuter.

[Clare]

I used to ride with an i-pod and still do occasionally on the bike paths. I don't ride with one on the road anymore because one day I was stopped at a T-intersection, with just the left ear in, ready to turn right. I didn't see (or hear) a dark coloured car approaching from the left and nearly turned in front of it. The car slowed down and I stopped in time. I'm not sure whether the i-pod was solely to blame, but I was lucky. I've also unfortunately heard people at work rant about stupid cyclists with i-pods, but strangely enough they don't whinge about the pedestrians who cross roads with earphones who I think are just as much at risk.

I think each to their own as long as it's not in a bunch or anything. I find music a good motivator and can understand why people wear them cycling, but I do think there are risks involved and after the incident with the car I'm not prepared to take the risk on the road.

[Bean]

If you're going to ban iPods you might as well ban radios in cars and hands free mobiles while you're at it.

While slightly irrelevant this point highlights the interesting fact that hands free mobile ARE as distracting and dangerous as hand-held phones used by drivers. It's the concentration required by the driver that can result in an accident, not the fact that they are holding something in one hand. Why have governments banned one and not the other? My guess is that most people would not perceive the link between hands-free phones and accidents and governments wouldn't be making popular decisions. In addition, data showing that hands-free phones were just as bad arrived on the scene a little later than hand-held data. It is quite likely that a similar situation currently exists with iPod use by cyclists. While there is a view by some that they are an accident waiting to happen (see my previous link to the news article), there is probably no data available to show what affect iPods have on cyclists' concentration, if any. This ultimately means that their use is legal, but it should therefore be up to the individual to decide whether or not their use is a good idea. I for one think they are not. There is no point brow-beating others in order for them to come to our own point of view. It never works.

[Driver]

Poor show regarding the comment about no sympathy for a rider that goes down with an ipod Matt.

OK, from someone who's been lying on the road with a broken back because the dear old lady didn't SEE me, the iPod was actually quite a nice distraction from the immense pain and shock.

PS having the iPod or not wouldn't have made any difference in my case.

PPS I distinctly remember the track - U2 - Without or without you !!

[tor.lattimore]

If anything happens and it turns out you had an ipod on you, you won't get any sympathy from me.

I guess the (obviously turned off) ipod in my back pocket today means I lose the sympathy vote :( devastating.

[Stevo]

Time and a place for the IPOD. Heavy traffic out, light traffic 1 in and no traffic full noise.

Next survey should be whether old people be allowed to walk thier dogs on bike paths with no lead!!! This is more of an issue for me.

[lovetoride]

Or those long extension leads!! Better still. Particularly in the early morning when it is dark and they are wearing dark clothes.

[Ross]

Walking dogs without a lead is against the law AFAIK. I have seen dogs with a blinky red bike light attached to their collar which is a good idea for early morning or late night walks. I also saw the other day a small dog wearing a fluoro green vest, looked like a proper dog item not a cyclist/road worker vest adapted to suit.

[SimonD]

I agree, but unfortunately we can't control what dog walkers do. We are united by cycling, and can only change our own behaviour here.

[j_young_80]

Next survey should be whether old people be allowed to walk thier dogs on bike paths with no lead!!! This is more of an issue for me.

Let's not go there, I managed to hit a canine road block at about 30ks/hr and wound up with a torn AC joint.

I did get an interesting point raised though regarding the fact that it's also fairly rude at times to turn up to a ride with your ipod - even with just one ear in.

[Driver]

Isn't this off topic? Where's Maxx now....?

[SimonD]

Cadel Evans votes no on JJJ! This is the whole program, but he's in there: http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/triplej/breakfast/rmd_2009_10_29.mp3

[Steven]

Cadel Evans votes no on JJJ! This is the whole program, but he's in there: http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/triplej/breakfast/rmd_2009_10_29.mp3

An MP3! Perfect, I can listen to it on my iPod on the ride home! :D

[Vanessa]

Lol

[Stevo]

[QUOTE=j_young_80;1927]Let's not go there, I managed to hit a canine road block at about 30ks/hr and wound up with a torn AC joint.
QUOTE]

Did I not get the memo, is it 'International week of Idiots Walking Dogs on bike/walk ways'? I tell you they are out to get me, except for Monday when I was on the Hard Tail, mmmmmm!!!!!