View Full Version : Friday's Bunch Rides: Bunch Etiquette Reminders
j_young_80
15-10-2009, 11:52 AM
All,
Just some reminders as we head into the warmer months (allegedly) and the bunches start to swell. All in all the bunches have been rolling well so let's keep it that way.
1. It is the riders at the back of the bunch's responsibility to let everyone know there is a car behind. It is the whole bunch's responsibility to pass that call up to the front!
2. If you're on the front and working hard, pull off 10-15 seconds before you blow up, and give yourself time to check for cars passing. Don't go for as long as possible and rip off the front into traffic in a slavering mess.
3. If you pull of the front, don't try to slot back into the bunch mid pack - this is very poor form!
4. We go through a few slip lanes on Adelaide Ave and people have been calling "Clear Back" lately - this sounds an awful lot like "Car Back" when you're up the front so if we can make this a "Clear" or "All Clear" instead.
5. At the start of the ride, best not to roll to the front of the bunch and slot yourself right in front of the leaders. This is likely to result in some bruised ego's, and will undoubtedly end with you pulling a turn so fast that your eyes bleed.
6. Try to keep the half wheeling to a minimum, if you're clearly off the pace with the person next to you, zip off to the back of the pack when it's safe to roll.
7. The sprint for Lennox doesn't start until you are THROUGH the roundabout. Riders jumping early will lose all respect from the peloton, and those that didn't have respect to lose will owe coffees.
See you all tomorrow, 6am @ ANU. No rain forecast!
SimonD
15-10-2009, 12:07 PM
1. It is the riders at the back of the bunch's responsibility to let everyone know there is a car behind. It is the whole bunch's responsibility to pass that call up to the front!
But keep it calm. No need to go hysterical about it!
2. If you're on the front and working hard, pull off 10-15 seconds before you blow up, and give yourself time to check for cars passing. Don't go for as long as possible and rip off the front into traffic in a slavering mess.
Says Jamie. but good point
3. If you pull of the front, don't try to slot back into the bunch mid pack - this is very poor form!
Unless someone calls you in. There will likely be a few sitting on the back of the quick bunch. If you are a sitter inner, then keep on the back so the bunch can continue to roll through in it's formation.
4. We go through a few slip lanes on Adelaide Ave and people have been calling "Clear Back" lately - this sounds an awful lot like "Car Back" when you're up the front so if we can make this a "Clear" or "All Clear" instead.
5. At the start of the ride, best not to roll to the front of the bunch and slot yourself right in front of the leaders. This is likely to result in some bruised ego's, and will undoubtedly end with you pulling a turn so fast that your eyes bleed.
6. Try to keep the half wheeling to a minimum, if you're clearly off the pace with the person next to you, zip off to the back of the pack when it's safe to roll.
Likewise, as you hit the front, try not to put on a massive surge, especially coming onto an up hill.
7. The sprint for Lennox doesn't start until you are THROUGH the roundabout. Riders jumping early will lose all respect from the peloton, and those that didn't have respect to lose will owe coffees.
8. Simon owes Hoops breakfast and Lyn $20
See you all tomorrow, 6am @ ANU. No rain forecast!
Boom! - negative rep for you!
Driver
15-10-2009, 12:16 PM
All,
7. The sprint for Lennox doesn't start until you are THROUGH the roundabout. Riders jumping early will lose all respect from the peloton, and those that didn't have respect to lose will owe coffees.
However good in theory Mr Jamie, this will inevitably cause a surge to the front immediately prior to the roundabout, especially when the bunch size swells. Sometimes better to keep the pace up to string out the line. Much less chance of a coming together.
I will however obey VCC Cycliquette rules and just pull a strong seated turn prior to the roundabout ;)
j_young_80
15-10-2009, 12:21 PM
pull a strong seated turn prior to the roundabout ;)
You're going to pull a strong turn? THIS I have to see!
SimonD
15-10-2009, 12:22 PM
Oh, and no elbow flicking!
Driver
15-10-2009, 01:09 PM
unless of course you are doing it for extra propulsion...
...it works Bossie, you should do it, really.
Can I just add one more while we're at it. The bunch seems to have become quite quite lax on a few road rules of late and we need to tighten up lest we lose someone under a car. I specifically want to mention cutting corners which we've been prone to do a lot lately. Cars can kill. Stay on your side of the road and hold your lines through corners. This is primarily the responsibility of the riders on the front of the bunch.
Hoops
15-10-2009, 01:35 PM
Also, if you bring a hammer, make sure it gets dropped!
EPO4Life
15-10-2009, 03:31 PM
You're going to pull a strong turn? THIS I have to see!
Didn't sparkles win the inaugrual soft tern award? or was that bredey?
Simonsky
15-10-2009, 03:45 PM
Can I add NO FREAKIN SNORKING anywhere except at the back of the bunch!!!!!? :mad:
After 3 viruses in 6 weeks if I see a cloud of mucous coming my way again I'm over the gutter and outta there.
bosworth*
15-10-2009, 04:05 PM
unless of course you are doing it for extra propulsion...
...it works Bossie, you should do it, really.
I once pulled a turn and got windburn on my face.
Never again.:(
Chris
15-10-2009, 04:22 PM
I once pulled a turn and got windburn on my face.
Never again.:(
An for you that would be a real problem, because then people would not be able to tell the difference between you red face and you ass.
j_young_80
15-10-2009, 04:24 PM
That's not true Chris, you always know which is his arse as it's the one he is talking out of.
should i be asking why you guys know what his arse looks like?
dont answer that... i take it it has something to do with the v-mobile man train.
bosworth*
15-10-2009, 04:37 PM
: ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((
gsavage
23-10-2009, 09:39 AM
Here I go, probably going to get smacked down but...
I think that it might be worth considering changing the way that people peel off at the front of the pack for the Friday bunch rides. We in the novices have been practicing a lot of pace line drills and these seem to work much better when there is a single lane than where the two front riders peel off to the left and right. Riding four-a-breast is dangerous at any time in a single lane and I think it is also against the law.
Also I have noticed that people seem to be riding very long hauls at the front and in the medium bunch that I rode in today there were no drills practised at all.
I know I was the slowest rider in the pack and maybe people can't be bothered with slowing down for me, but in the end if it wasn't for JJ I would have ended up having a lonely ride from the dam on. As these are training rides I think a bit of encouragement for us slower riders is needed not just keep up or else. This will become more important as more and more of the novices will be slipping up to the medium bunch in the coming weeks.
Perhaps there needs to be a mentored slower medium bunch started up to follow on from the conclusion of the novice program (apologies if this is already in the pipeline).
Finally maybe some of us need to be reminded about the road rules and actually make the effort of sticking to them. It doesn't matter that not all of the bunch gets across at the lights, especially in a larger bunch. We could try something new and wait for the rest.
Let the smackfest begin... :D
I was in that same "medium" bunch this morning. It seemed to me that most of the usual medium bunch tacked onto the fast guys, either on purpose or due to some kind of herd instinct. The end result was a massive tail off the fast group, and I would guess some substantial chaos on that ride. Maybe it was a one off bit of disorganisation but I think it's worth discussing given that the rest of the novices will gradually join the medium bunch.
I would suggest that all the novices start off in the medium bunch. I know some will be quicker than that and should move up, but only once you KNOW you're too fast for medium, not just because testosterone says yes. Further, I'd suggest that we consider splitting the medium bunch into fast-medium and slow-medium as there is significant diversity in the pace of this group. Slow medium(at least) should maintain a "no-one left behind" policy to avoid the long lonely ride problem.
Hoops
23-10-2009, 10:11 AM
Ya what happened this morning? Did the whole medium crew tack on to the back of our steam train? I don't remember yelling "all aboard" :p
Herd behaviour. Confusion. Chaos. Excess testosterone and confidence.
Did you mean this train?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_bmM8TSPMGgc/SFJ9CHmBkLI/AAAAAAAAAZM/MU92p1XY54Y/s400/overloaded_train_hanging_india.jpg
gribble
23-10-2009, 10:26 AM
I agree make a fast medium and a slow medium but probably should allow the faster medium to drop people and the slow medium with the policy not to leave anyone behind this way if someone step's up and cannot handle the pass they can drop onto the slower ride.
This way it will give the novice group somewhere to step up, and those which are not up to riding on the fast group the ability to get a good workout and improve.
Hoops
23-10-2009, 10:27 AM
Similar, but you need about 6 riders out the front towing that train. Like a sleigh! Mush Mush!
Is it alright for people to try to hang on the fast for as long as they can then drop back to Medium? as long as they hang off the back and not get in the way? don't want to tick people off.
Hoops
23-10-2009, 10:40 AM
Is it alright for people to try to hang on the fast for as long as they can then drop back to Medium? as long as they hang off the back and not get in the way? don't want to tick people off.
Within reason. If you're finding yourself too strong for the medium group and in the top few on the climbs - then sure. Otherwise things run much better without a 40 person tail on the fast group. If sitting in on the Meds becomes too easy, just take longer sustained turns to make the ride more difficult.
Fair enough, i would only attempt it again when there arent 50,000 people. I wouldnt say the medium is easy for me, i guess im trying to aim way high in an attempt to get slightly better atleast.
j_young_80
23-10-2009, 10:57 AM
Is it alright for people to try to hang on the fast for as long as they can then drop back to Medium? as long as they hang off the back and not get in the way? don't want to tick people off.
Avi - had no issue with your riding this morning - keep doing what you're doing
Startrek
23-10-2009, 10:58 AM
This month its part of my training to ride with the fast bunch, i normally ride the med and look after everyone keep them in line ,but i also notice everyone jumped on the fast bunch to day.I think as we run the ride, maybe we should have a roster for the med just through summer so the new guys are n't left like they where today .
Well what do you think?
aha...that makes sense....I think people followed you Lee...
Agree with the roster idea, or at the very least a shout out before we leave about which group is which.
Startrek
23-10-2009, 11:07 AM
Yeah you could be right ,i think that might of happened.
tor.lattimore
23-10-2009, 11:11 AM
This month its part of my training to ride with the fast bunch, i normally ride the med and look after everyone keep them in line ,but i also notice everyone jumped on the fast bunch to day.I think as we run the ride, maybe we should have a roster for the med just through summer so the new guys are n't left like they where today .
Well what do you think?
I don't see the need for a roster for the medium bunch which usually contains plenty of more able bunch riders than I am. I do see the need for an appropriate number of bunches catering to riders of different speeds.
A few riders hanging on doesn't really cause trouble, but today's fast bunch was a complete shambles, partly because many riders who couldn't pull turns didn't know what to do with themselves. I think we need a slow/medium/fast and then the speed of the medium can be increased, hopefully giving a more suitable bunch for everyone.
I don't have a problem with anyone trying to hang in fast, as long as they don't disrupt the group. Avi looked like he did a great job.
Strange. This morning I thought we had a really large bunch but didn't realize until we got back that it was because the med bunch tacked on. Was this the reason for riders dropping back in the middle of the bunch on Lady D? It was about when Dan got his flat that things went pear-shaped and this may be due to some slower riders coming to the front as we hit the rise coming onto Cotter Rd?? It was apeshit from then on in as riders settled back into their positions in the bunch.
I don't think this is normally an issue and would advocate for clear leadership from a V-Mober or two in the Med bunch to simply say when that bunch is leaving.
j_young_80
23-10-2009, 11:17 AM
To have a slow means that we need the riders to populate it - in the past i've found that people don't want to ride in "the slow" group. Rider that are probably best placed to ride that group, try to hang onto Medium and the "Slow" bunch has 3 riders to start.
Would it help if it were renamed "the not slow at all" group.
However, we're working on another bunch that sits behind the Medium - will keep you posted.
I don't think this is normally an issue and would advocate for clear leadership from a V-Mober or two in the Med bunch to simply say when that bunch is leaving.
Agreed - except that this morning Erica and I shouted out "Medium bunch leaving" and there were 8 of us left!
Agreed - except that this morning Erica and I shouted out "Medium bunch leaving" and there were 8 of us left!
Hmmm... Odd. I have to say it was pretty clear when Jamie said "fast bunch, let's head off" so some people must have been confused. It's a rare event so perhaps when we get a huge crowd we just need to make the announcements clear and to point out that there is a fast AND a medium bunch?!
Rob, you're not too new... improve you signature please!;)
As above - I think Lee is the most visible and obvious medium bunch rider, and she was riding with fast today, so everyone else followed her. Not Lee's fault, just one of those stupid things.
How's that signature? See how long it takes him to notice.
gribble
23-10-2009, 11:40 AM
Im not saying we need to have the extra group all the time but when we had the amount that showed up this morning it could be handy to create the extra group to spread out the ability and give the regular novice riders a chance to ride the mugga route without getting smashed.
How's that signature? See how long it takes him to notice.
Nice! That's perfect!
Hoops
23-10-2009, 12:33 PM
Graeme, pacelines tend to work best when you have a group of riders that are of equal-ish ability.
We'd have to split the bunches up to create groups of riders that could work efficiently together.
gsavage
23-10-2009, 12:49 PM
Graeme, pacelines tend to work best when you have a group of riders that are of equal-ish ability.
We'd have to split the bunches up to create groups of riders that could work efficiently together.
No problems I was just making suggestions based on what seemed to work with the Novices, but there must be other ways to peel off rather than four-a-breast rolloffs. :)
dadcram
23-10-2009, 01:08 PM
A paceline for the novices would be sweet on the current route. If JA is teaching it then lets go withit as 4 wide down limestone is a touch crazy up near D*Son. You could do it in turns so that there is some social interaction whilst the V-Mobers are on the front pulling the group.
Another suggestion over breakfast was to extend out to Majura road (awesome sprint from the federal hwy offramp to the crest of the hill!) or Eagle Hawk if time permits. That would make the Formula 1 roundabout safer.
libbya
23-10-2009, 01:47 PM
whilst I know there is a world of difference between cyclists and triathletes, the Bilbys expericence with rolling over via a paceline has been disastrous bar for the very fast group. Those guys are only a small group with mostly experienced riders. In all other bunches the size of the bunch and riders' inability to ride steadily resulted in chaos and disaster with pacelining. Would love to hear you guys manage a different result, and if so let us know how!
Driver
23-10-2009, 02:57 PM
Paceline - there really is only one proper type - A double pace-line - is when a group of cyclists of at least 6 or more work cohesively together by forming two lines side-by-side with each cyclist in the draft of the cyclist immediately in front. The two lines of cyclists in a double pace-line consist of an accelerating line (cyclists moving towards the front) and a decelerating line (cyclists moving towards the back).
The rest are just variable speed bunch rides. This type of paceline never gets wider than 2 abreast.
Paceline fact #1 - works best with riders of similar ability and strength.
Paceline fact #2 - it only takes one person not on the same page as the rest to totally screw it up.
Paceline fact #3 - If you are not up to the standard either sit on the back or get the hell out.
There are two weekly bunches (that I know of) that have run for years now which WORK, and both contain mostly experienced or elite riders. They are the Hour of Power on Tues and the Hour of Terra (QUON) on Friday - by far this towns fastest bunch ride.
In both bunches you'll get told in no uncertain terms if you are not up to standard. Your option then is to sit on the back, usually in single file, NOT rolling through, or get dropped. The QUON bunch of late has been blisteringly fast - and big. I'm thinking 30+ riders averaging 45 kmh+ for 40 mins, and it works.
What does this mean for novices or nov-intermediates? It means you need a lot of practice somewhere not in city. This is highlighted at every open handicap you see - the early groups almost never get it right unless there's someone to coach them all the way and keep on their hammer.
Something like the Norman or other bunch rides that frequent our arterials aren't the place to 'practice' pacelines, too many wobbly wheels and unpredictable moves - no good when there is traffic around. You've gotta be predictable and smooth.
If the med or 'slightly slower than the medium' groups want to paceline I'd suggest they do an alternate route or even at Stromlo. The fast bunch I'd think should convert from the current double-peel to the conventional paceline. This would clean things up a little too, judging by this morning's feeedback at the pickle.
Just my 5 cents.
vBulletin® v3.8.5, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.